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| This is a talk page relating to the [[IFWiki:Community portal]] content page. Older discussions can be read at [[IFWiki talk:Community portal/Archive 2005 to 2019]].
| | These days the most active place to discuss the wiki is on the [[Intfiction]] forum. The following two links should be helpful: |
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| == Proposed upgrade of MediaWiki software in 2021-22 ==
| | * There is a category for [https://intfiction.org/c/general/if-community-resources/70 IF Community Resources]: this includes IFWiki, and you could add the "ifwiki" tag to your topic there. |
| | * There are posts with the [https://intfiction.org/tag/ifwiki ifwiki tag] across the forum in various categories. |
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| [[User:David Cornelson|David Cornelson]] suggested I add a page about my suggestion that the software behind this site be upgraded, so here it is: [[IFWiki:Proposed upgrade of MediaWiki software in 2021-22]]. Perhaps we could discuss it there. Thanks. [[User:Jonathan|Jonathan]] ([[User talk:Jonathan|talk]]) 11:34, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
| | It is still possible to use this talk page, and the wiki administrators will read your comments. To sign your name on a talk page, just type the tilde character four times (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) and it will be converted into your name and time when you save the page. Older discussions can be read at [[Talk:About IFWiki/Archive 2005 to 2019]] and [[Talk:About IFWiki/Archive 2021 to 2022]]. |
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| == [RESOLVED] Job queue problem == | | == Podcast page? == |
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| The various choice-based games were added to [[:Category:CYOA]] by [[Template:CYOA]], i.e. <nowiki>{{CYOA}}</nowiki> was added to all the games' pages.
| | Someone bumped [https://intfiction.org/t/if-relevant-podcasts/44109 one of the threads about IF-related podcasts/episodes] on intfiction and I was wondering, since there are at least three or four of these (mostly overlapping but each with at least some individual relevant episodes of non-IF podcasts), if it would make sense to have a page here collecting podcasts and podcast episodes that talk about IF? But I see that [[:Category:Publications]] says "sites that are primarily review sites don't belong here" so... should IFWiki have a podcasts page, and if so, where? If not, no big deal. Maybe I'll collect all the links into a single one of the forum threads or something... |
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| We changed [[Template:CYOA]] so that it would add pages using it to [[:Category:Choice-based]] instead.
| | [[User:JoshGrams|JoshGrams]] ([[User talk:JoshGrams|talk]]) 01:37, 8 May 2023 (UTC) |
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| The expected behaviour is that, once the CYOA template was changed, a job would be added to MediaWiki's job queue for all 145 pages that call that template, and that the pages would be automatically recategorised. It's described in the [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Job_queue#Updating_links_tables_when_a_template_changes MediaWiki job queue manual page]: "When a template changes, MediaWiki adds a job to the job queue for each article transcluding that template. Each job is a command to read an article, expand any templates, and update the link table accordingly. Previously, the host articles would remain outdated until either their parser cache expires or until a user edits the article."
| | : A podcasts page sounds good to me! Maybe you could put it in the Websites category. It can always be moved later if someone comes up with a better place for it. [[User:Bg|bg]] ([[User talk:Bg|talk]]) 12:51, 8 May 2023 (UTC) |
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| A couple of days later none of the pages have automatically been recategorised. Five of them were recategorised by me doing a null edit on them (i.e. opening the page for editing and saving having made no change).
| | :: I see you've created the [[Podcasts]] page - it looks good, thanks :-) [[User:Jonathan|Jonathan]] ([[User talk:Jonathan|talk]]) 13:20, 10 May 2023 (UTC) |
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| Some problems/solutions that come to mind:
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| # It is possible to run the whole job queue at the command line - but we don't have shell access.
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| # Something might be causing a problem in the queue. We might see an error at the command line when running the job queue, or might see something useful in the job table - but we don't have access to the database.
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| # The job queue might be running too slowly. It would be good to check the value for [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgJobRunRate $wgJobRunRate] in the config file, LocalSettings.php - but we don't have access to the files.
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| # I didn't notice the [https://www.ifwiki.org/api.php?action=query&meta=siteinfo&siprop=statistics size of the job queue] increase when I edited the template (though to be fair it's higher today) so maybe the jobs weren't created. I can't think why this would be though.
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| # There is a script that can be run at the command line that would rebuild everything including categories.
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| # Without access to the server:
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| ## We could just wait until the job queue runs down to 0.
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| ## We could manually null edit the 140 remaining pages. Though that doesn't address the underlying problem.
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| What do we think? [[User:Jonathan|Jonathan]] ([[User talk:Jonathan|talk]]) 09:59, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
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| :It does seem to be a problem with the job queue not running, or running at glacial speed. Still only 7 pages have moved to the "Choice-based" category (probably all edited manually). But on my copy of the wiki on a different server, after a few hours there were 42 pages there. After running the maintenance script to clear the job queue, there were 127 pages. The 24 pages which remain in the "CYOA" category weren't categorised using <code><nowiki>{{CYOA}}</nowiki></code> (mostly they weren't games at all) so will need to be recategorised manually. It can be sorted out easily enough :-) [[User:Jonathan|Jonathan]] ([[User talk:Jonathan|talk]]) 14:47, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
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| ::Now that we are on the new server this is resolved, and I'll also set up a cron job to keep the job queue running. [[User:Jonathan|Jonathan]] ([[User talk:Jonathan|talk]]) 12:46, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
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| == Proposed new icons and genre changes ==
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| [[User:Robin Johnson|Robin Johnson]] has started a discussion about this at [[IFWiki talk:Genre#Proposed new icons and genre changes]]. I'm adding the link here to make it more visible (to visitors or those who've watched the Community Portal page). [[User:Jonathan|Jonathan]] ([[User talk:Jonathan|talk]]) 14:37, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
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| == Copyright discussions ==
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| I've started the [[IFWiki:Copyright discussions]] page and a discussion about it at [[IFWiki talk:Copyright discussions]]. [[User:Jonathan|Jonathan]] ([[User talk:Jonathan|talk]]) 14:38, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
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| == Adding a favicon and potentially a logo ==
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| I've just noticed that we don't have a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favicon favicon] here. Usually it'd be based on a logo, but we don't have one of them either (though the textual image in the top left is familiar and distinctive). [[User:Robin Johnson|Robin Johnson]], you're artistic! Would you be able to come up with something? :-) [[User:Jonathan|Jonathan]] ([[User talk:Jonathan|talk]]) 14:20, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
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| :Hmmm. A quick attempt at a logo type thing. Not particularly inspired, but then we're all about text...
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| :[[Image:Logo-rounded.png|160px]]
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| :I also made a favicon to go with it (the same rounded square shape, but with just ">i" in it) but am having trouble trying to upload it: "Could not create directory "mwstore://local-backend/local-public/6/62"." [[User:Robin Johnson|Robin Johnson]] ([[User talk:Robin Johnson|talk]]) 22:01, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
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| :: I like how the > reminds you of a parser game and a few of the words being bolded reminds you of a hypertext game. [[User:Bg|bg]] ([[User talk:Bg|talk]]) 22:07, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
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| ::: Ha, I didn't think of that but happy to take credit for it! :-) I'd consider playing on it and making them look even more like hyperlinks, but having an image on every page containing things that look like hyperlinks but aren't is probably not great design. [[User:Robin Johnson|Robin Johnson]] ([[User talk:Robin Johnson|talk]]) 10:27, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
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| == Add information to game/work pages using IFDB's API ==
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| The Interactive Fiction Database has an API that would let us add information to game pages straight from that website.
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| We could have a template that adds an infobox to the relevant page.
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| If we were to do that, which information should be used? You can see what is available by looking at [https://ifdb.org/viewgame?ifiction&id=b0i6bx7g4rkrekgg this result] for [https://ifdb.org/viewgame?id=b0i6bx7g4rkrekgg Ballyhoo]. [[User:Jonathan|Jonathan]] ([[User talk:Jonathan|talk]]) 06:58, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
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| :I think a good infobox would have the cover art, title, author, publisher*, development system*, platform*, year, and genre(s), then a link to the IFDB page. (I've used "*" where this field doesn't seem to be in the metadata (yet?), at least not for that example). Then the entirety of the IFWiki page text can be used for writing ''about'' the game, not cataloguing it. (I've posted [[IFWiki_talk:Works_(style_guide)#Proposed_rework|longer thoughts around this]] recently.)
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| :Would it be possible to use year, publisher, and genre(s) to automatically add categories to the page too? And genre(s)/awards* to add icons/ribbons? [[User:Robin Johnson|Robin Johnson]] ([[User talk:Robin Johnson|talk]]) 11:42, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
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| :: What about adding one of the "star" rating numbers? They could be shown with star icons.
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| :: I agree with what you've written about writing about games rather than collecting data about them. Hopefully automating the data aspect of it will make that easier.
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| ::Yes, the template could add categories based on the data - or if we go the whole hog, the data could form the basis of a mini database which would allow drilling down by multiple filters (so instead of just being able to look by category for 2010 games, or Inform games, or games by author X, you could get a list of games that match all). [[User:Jonathan|Jonathan]] ([[User talk:Jonathan|talk]]) 12:07, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
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| :::I don't feel strongly either way, but my vote (if it were a vote) would be against showing the star ratings here. It's not a piece of data that's inherent to the game, and we're not really about judging games. [[User:Robin Johnson|Robin Johnson]] ([[User talk:Robin Johnson|talk]]) 14:26, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
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| :::: If there's an infobox, at a minimum I would think you'd want the title, author, publication date (or at least year), development system and/or platform. (Currently, ifwiki uses platform to mean e.g. Glulx, z-code, web browser--as things stand, that's a detail that ifwiki often tracks, but IFDB does not have a field for.) Somewhere on the page there should definitely be a link to IFDB. After those things, the next most important would be cover art and award info. Genre is nice to have. Publisher is fine for games that have a separate publisher, although many are self-published. Not sure about stars. What is the purpose of an ifwiki page about an IF work? Is it more for "Why is this work historically significant/interesting," or for people deciding if they want to play it? [[User:Bg|bg]] ([[User talk:Bg|talk]]) 14:34, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
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| ::::: I think it should definitely be the former. [[User:Robin Johnson|Robin Johnson]] ([[User talk:Robin Johnson|talk]]) 18:11, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
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| :::::: I like the idea of having the stars, but it wouldn't necessarily be the latest score, if the page is cached - so maybe not. The awards should stay (e.g. on [[Brain_Guzzlers_from_Beyond!]], to pick one at random) I think as they answer both questions (significant and deciding whether to play).
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| :::::: Also, part of the discussion at [[IFWiki talk:Genre#Proposed new icons and genre changes]] is about how we should tie in the various types of wiki "Genre" categories with the genres as listed on IDFB. [[User:Jonathan|Jonathan]] ([[User talk:Jonathan|talk]]) 18:54, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
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| : (Where do I nest this?) Oh--do we need to display copyright/license for the info pulled from IFDB? Especially the cover art. If so, we'd need the license info too. [[User:Bg|bg]] ([[User talk:Bg|talk]]) 19:01, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
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| :: We'd probably have to regurgitate the Creative Commons spiel for anything like the description (and maybe anyway, to err on the side of caution). For cover art, I think could automatically link to the Copyright message page (eg [https://ifdb.org/viewgame?coverart&id=b0i6bx7g4rkrekgg&ldesc this one for Ballyhoo]. [[User:Jonathan|Jonathan]] ([[User talk:Jonathan|talk]]) 19:33, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
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| ==Whether to have game/work pages that only have an infobox and nothing else==
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| I'm not sure where to put this question, but maybe we also need to think about content for the game/work pages beyond the infobox. Are there going to be work pages that have only an infobox, and nothing else? That is, will new work pages be created even if no one has immediate plans to add anything else to the page? Also, are we going to want to pull any external review links from IFDB? Do we want to keep including author commentary links (added manually, since I don't think IFDB currently links to that)? [[User:Bg|bg]] ([[User talk:Bg|talk]]) 18:43, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
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